Experimental list-building

I hope no one's reading this post, but it's a way of me trying to experiment with various lists. Why am I messing around with my lists? Because I haven't played in 5 months and I need to review my lists when I get back in August.

So what do I have? My main army is Imperial Guard, but I'm going to focus more on a thematic, fluffy list and get rid of most of my infantry. As you already know, the Draconian Armored Defenders are entirely armored - they comprise mostly of armored regiments, filled with Leman Russ tanks and more Leman Russ tanks. Thanks to their proximity to Draconis IV, which is a forge world, the Astra Militarum regiments of Draconis III have access to plenty of plasma weapons and energy weapons. That accounts for the unusually high number of Leman Russ Executioner tanks in the regiment. Draconis IV is one of the very few forge worlds who produce Leman Russ Executioner tanks. Supposedly. Oh, and we have Leman Russ Annihilators too, to keep up with the thematic energy weapon things (with plasma cannon sponsons).

But I wanted to play a Brigade. Even back in 7th edition, I didn't really bother with much infantry and kind of created the Kamikaze Stormtroopers as the accompanying infantry to my Draconian armored regiments. So they don't really use infantry...and those they do use are elite stormtroopers (Kamikaze Troopers) that are basically Cadian Kasrkins, Death Korps of Krieg Grenadiers, Valhallan Stormtroopers and other stuff. At some point of time, our hellguns turned into hot-shot lasguns, and because Games Workshop wanted to trademark Stormtroopers but couldn't because they already existed in Star Wars, they decided to trademark the High Gothic (cough, Latin) name, Militarum Tempestus. But it doesn't invalidate the Kasrkins and other storm troopers in the normal regiments, and you can still take them in your regiment. It sucks that they don't get regimental doctrines the rest of your Astra Militarum detachment get, but I guess it would be kind of overpowered (and invalidates the use of infantry squads - no one would take infantry squads if you can have Militarum Tempestus Scions doing everything they do but better).

So how does my Draconian Brigade look like? I'm going to build 2,000-point lists, so that's the bencmark for my lists.

Draconian Armored Defenders

Brigade Detachment (12 Command Points)

HQ

3 Tempestors Prime with command rods (45x3 = 135)

Elites

2 4-men Militarum Tempestus Command Squads with 4 plasma guns each (88x2=176)

Commissar with bolt pistol 16

Troops

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 2 plasma guns 74

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 2 plasma guns 74

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with hot-shot volley guns 62

10 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 4 plasma guns 148

10 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 4 hot-shot volley guns 124

10 Militarum Tempestus Scions 100

Fast Attack

Armored Sentinel with plasma cannon 55

2 Armored Sentinel, each with lascannon (60x2=120)

Heavy Support

2 Wyverns with heavy bolters (103x2=206)

Heavy weapons squad with 3 lascannons 78

Total: 1,368

Spearhead Detachment (1 Command Point)

HQ

Company Commander with bolt pistol and power sword 35 (Warlord, Grand Strategist Warlord Trait and Kurov's Aquila Relic)

Leman Russ Annihilator with lascannon and plasma cannons 212

2 Leman Russ Executioner tanks, each with lascannon and plasma cannons (192x2=384)

Total: 631

Grand Total: 1,999, 16 Command Points

So that's a Brigade Detachment that's pretty fluffy, I guess? I no longer have infantry squads and all my Troops are Kamikaze Stormtroopers, which is exactly what I wanted. Awesome. Plus the Spearhead Detachment to give my Leman Russ tanks Objective Secured because why the hell not? This is my main army. It lacks the numbers of a standard Imperial Guard army because I didn't use infantry squads or conscripts, but it packs a hell lot of firepower and special weapons. Just look at the amount of plasma - not only is it powerful, it also makes my list very fluffy, given how the Draconian Astra Militarum regiments receive a lot of plasma weapons from the nearby forge world of Draconis IV. Plasma-saturated Leman Russ Executioner tanks and Kamikaze Troopers equipped with plasma guns. What else can I ask for?

The next list I want to try and build is an Imperial Knights list. Now that the Imperial Knight codex has dropped on us, let's see what I can build with Knights! I have gone through the codex and I think the Questor Mechanicus fits my fluff more...thanks to the proximity of the forge world Draconis IV to House Yato, it seems that they have a much closer relationship to the Adeptus Mechanicus than Questor Imperialis. Of course, this is subject to change. Maybe. I dunno. We'll see. But for now I'm trying to build a list where it fits my Knights' shooty style. House Yato is not really a melee House but a...shooty House, and to be honest, the best Household Traditions that fit them are House Vulker (but shooting at the closest target kinds of gimps it a bit), House Taranis and House Hawkshroud. If I really wanted to make a melee list, House Griffith or House Mortan or House Krast would be great. Actually there are some things I can do with House Krast in terms of Crunch, and even if my guys are shooty guys, we'll rely a lot on Titanic Feet. Yeah, Titanic Feet rocks!

So let's see what I can do. I'm waiting on the FAQ...I really hope Games Workshop decide to change it to only needing at least 2 Dominus and/or Questoris classes (and not 3) for the Super-heavy Detachment to get the Command Benefits of 3, otherwise it really punishes people for taking Armiger class Knights. Like, really, if it's 2 Questoris and/or Dominus and 1 Armiger, they should get the Command Benefit of 3 points. I get that they're trying to reduce Armiger spam, but there are other ways to do it - like changing it to 2 instead of 3, otherwise nobody would take Armiger-class Knights. They aren't worth it.

Furthermore, as most people already point out, taking an all-Knight list is disadvantageous because you get relatively few Command Points for doing so. 3 (or 6) aren't enough to use a lot of the cool Stratagems. As a result, you need to accompany your Knights with a Battalion Detachment of either Adeptus Mechanicus or Astra Militarum for the much-needed extra 5 Command Points. Not only is it pretty fluffy, it allows you to use Stratagems without getting punished. I hope.

So how do you build a Knights list? Let's assume the Armigers won't get FAQed and we're forced to take 3 Questoris and/or Dominus class Knights for a super-heavy detachment.

House Yato

Super-heavy Detachment (3 Command Points)

Knight Castellan with 2 twin siegebreaker cannons and 2 shieldbreaker missiles 604

Knight Crusader with 2 heavy stubbers, rapid-fire battle cannon, Avenger gatling cannon and Stormspear rocket pod 530

Knight Warden with meltagun and twin Icarus autocannon 454 / Knight Errant with Stormspear rocket pod and heavy stubber 440/ Knight Errant with Stormspear rocket pod and heavy stubber 440

Total: 1,588 / 1,574

Kamikaze Storm Troopers

Battalion Detachment (5 Command Points)

HQ

2 Tempestors Prime with command rods (45x2 = 90)

Troops

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 2 plasma guns 74

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 2 plasma guns 74

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 2 plasma guns 74 / 5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 2 plasma guns 74 / Militarum Tempestus Command Squads with 4 plasma guns 88 (Elites)

10 Militarum Tempestus Scions 100 / Taurox Prime with Taurox gatling cannon and 2 hot-shot volley guns 114 (Dedicated Transport) / 10 Militarum Tempestus Scions 100

Total: 412 / 426 / 426

Grand Total: 2,000, 11 Command Points

Alternatively, for this list, I can swap out the Knight Warden with meltagun and twin Icarus autocannon for a Knight Errant with Stormspear rocket pod and heavy stubber so that I can replace the 10 Militarum Tempestus Scions with a Taurox Prime. Not sure if that's a good idea, but sometimes having an extra vehicle might be a good idea. But this is already an elite army with so few bodies, so...well, it might still work out somehow. Maybe. I don't know. Of course, if I want more bodies, I can stick to having 10 Militarum Tempestus Scions and upgrade one of the plasma stormtrooper squads into a command squad with 4 plasma guns.

If they FAQ the Armigers and allow us to take 2 Questoris and/or Dominus class Knights instead of 3 for the Super-heavy detachment to get 3 Command Points, then I'll swap out the Knight Errant or Knight Warden for 2 Armigers Helverin and I'll be able to put in both the Taurox Prime with heavy stubber and the 10-men Militarum Tempestus squad. Of course, I'll have to swap out 2 plasma guns for 2 hot-shot volley guns, but that's totally worth it. The other option is to swap the Knight Castellan out for a Knight Valiant, which suits me just fine. I am tempted to go House Griffith for this configuration. For this configuration, I would rather have 2 Armigers Warglaive instead. Unfortunately I would have to equip them with heavy stubbers to squeeze in the points. If I do that, I can upgrade one of my plasma gun squads into a Militarum Tempestus command squad with 4 plasma guns and still have 8 points left over (power swords for both Tempestors Prime). Or I could just stick with the Knight Errant and swap the Taurox Prime out for a 10-men Militarum Tempestus squad with 4 hot-shot volley guns. It'll be worth spending a couple of Command Points for an extra Heirloom and Warlord Trait - giving my Knight Valiant Traitor's Pyre and the Ion Bulwark Warlord Trait and my Knight Errant Helm of the Nameless Warrior and Knight Seneschal Warlord Trait. If I really want to go ham, I'll spend another 2 Command Points to give my Knight Crusader Endless Fury. On the other hand, I can just go House Hawkshroud and make my Knight Valiant incredibly durable with Traitor's Pyre and Ion Bulwark (if I go with the Armigers Warglaives instead of the Knight Errant). If I feel like it, a Command Point for my Knight Crusader to get Endless Fury or Armor of the Sainted Ion. Throne, if I get Armor of the Sainted Ion (or Banner of Macharius Triumphant), I might as well spend another Command Point to get him Blessed by the Sacristans and have his Avenger gatling cannon deal mortal wounds. Of course, House Hawkshroud would be better for Armigers Helverin rather than Armigers Warglaive, and this suits House Yato's ranged warfare and shooty fighting style more than House Griffith's Charge and fight in melee style. So this is a pretty fluffy Imperial Knight list where my Imperium aligned House Yato is escorted by a house retinue of elite Kamikaze Storm Troopers. So it'll look something like this:

House Yato

Super-heavy Detachment (3 Command Points)

Knight Valiant with 2 twin siegebreaker cannons and 2 shieldbreaker missiles 594

Knight Crusader with 2 heavy stubbers, rapid-fire battle cannon, Avenger gatling cannon and Stormspear rocket pod 530

2 Armigers Helverin with heavy stubber (174x2 = 348)

Total: 1,472

Kamikaze Storm Troopers

Battalion Detachment (5 Command Points)

HQ

2 Tempestors Prime with command rods (45x2 = 90)

Troops

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 2 plasma guns 74

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 2 hot-shot volley guns 62

10 Militarum Tempestus Scions 100

Elites

Militarum Tempestus Command Squads with 4 plasma guns 88

Dedicated Transport

Taurox Prime with Taurox gatling cannon and 2 hot-shot volley guns 114

Total: 528

Grand Total: 2,000, 11 Command Points

Well, obviously this list hinges heavily on the FAQ and whether they allow us to use Armiger Warglaive or Helverin to take up the 3rd slot rather than have all 3 slots be Dominus and/or Questoris class (which is pretty restricting). The alternative is to go Adeptus Mechanicus. That means I have to buy a new bunch of Skitarii. Uh oh.

House Yato

Super-heavy Detachment (3 Command Points)

Knight Castellan with 2 twin siegebreaker cannons and 2 shieldbreaker missiles 604

Knight Crusader with 2 heavy stubbers, rapid-fire battle cannon, Avenger gatling cannon and Stormspear rocket pod 530

Knight Errant with Stormspear rocket pod and heavy stubber 440

Total: 1,574

Draconian Skitarii Maniple

Battalion Detachment (5 Command Points)

HQ

Tech-priest Dominus with volkite blaster and phosphor serpenta 127

Tech-priest Enginseer 47

Troops

5 Skitarii Vanguard with 2 plasma calivers, phosphor blast pistol and taser goad 75

10 Skitarii Vanguard with 2 arc rifles and taser goad 92

5 Skitarii Rangers with 2 transuranic arquebuses 85

Total: 426

Grand Total: 2,000, 11 Command Points

Yup, this seems more in line with Questor Mechanicus. I'll be able to get 3 Heirlooms with the Heirlooms of the Household Stratagem, but at a cost of 3 Command Points. That will give me Endless Fury for my Knight Crusader, Cawl's Wrath for my Knight Castellan and Mark of the Omnissiah for my Knight Errant. One way way of doing this is to go House Vulker for the re-rolls of ones for my Knights and make my Knight Castellan an Adamantium Knight. The other solution is to go House Krast and give my Knight Castellan First Knight so that he can re-roll all the 1s for my supercharged Cawl's Wrath. Heh. I wonder...which would be a better idea? Who knows? I don't. But I really like the idea of House Krast. Not only do I get reliable re-rolls for my Knight Castellan Warlord, I also have access to House Krast's Stratagem Controlled Aggression, and I get to re-roll all failed hit rolls in the fight phase. Meaning...TITANIC FEET! I'm gonna STOMP everybody into oblivion! Yeah...I'm so tempted to go for this combination! (Note: still works even if I ally House Krast-styled House Yato with my Kamikaze Stormtroopers, since they cost the same as the Skitarii). For this, I'll be giving my Draconian Skitarii the Metalica forge world dogma since they'll have to chase after my Knights (read: move and advance) to escort them and repair them. Of course, Stygies VIII also helps a lot if I keep them right at the back to repair the stationary Knight Crusader and Knight Castellan. If I really want to make it a fluffy, Adeptus Mechanicus styled list, I can include a Sacristan Forgeshrine to repair, refuel and rearm my Imperial Knights (especially my Knight Castellan). Obviously it's not optimal as I give up an entire turn of shooting and charging to do that, but sometimes it might just be...worth it. We'll see.

House Yato

Super-heavy Detachment (3 Command Points)

Knight Castellan with 2 twin siegebreaker cannons and 2 shieldbreaker missiles 604

Knight Crusader with 2 heavy stubbers, rapid-fire battle cannon, Avenger gatling cannon and Stormspear rocket pod 530

Knight Errant with Stormspear rocket pod and heavy stubber 440

Total: 1,574

Draconian Skitarii Maniple

Battalion Detachment (5 Command Points)

HQ

Tech-priest Dominus with volkite blaster and phosphor serpenta 127

Tech-priest Enginseer 47

Troops

5 Skitarii Vanguard with 2 plasma calivers, phosphor blast pistol and taser goad 75

5 Skitarii Vanguard with 2 arc rifles, arc pistol and arc maul 56

5 Skitarii Vanguard 40

Total: 345

Fortification

Sacristan Forgeshrine 80

Grand Total: 1,999, 11 Command Points

Obviously it might not be a good idea to put a Sacristan Forgeshrine in the list, not when I have better things to spend my points on...could almost buy a squad of Rangers with that.

House Yato

Super-heavy Detachment (3 Command Points)

Knight Castellan with 2 twin siegebreaker cannons and 2 shieldbreaker missiles 604

Knight Crusader with 2 heavy stubbers, rapid-fire battle cannon, Avenger gatling cannon and Stormspear rocket pod 530

Knight Errant with twin Icarus autocannon and heavy stubber 425

Total: 1,559

Draconian Skitarii Maniple

Battalion Detachment (5 Command Points)

HQ

Tech-priest Dominus with volkite blaster and phosphor serpenta 127

Tech-priest Enginseer 47

Troops

5 Skitarii Vanguard with 2 plasma calivers, phosphor blast pistol and taser goad 75

5 Skitarii Vanguard with 2 arc rifles, arc pistol and arc maul 56

5 Skitarii Vanguard with taser goad 44

5 Skitarii Rangers with 2 transuranic arquebuses and omnispex 92

Total: 441

Grand Total: 2,000, 11 Command Points

If the Armigers get FAQed, then I'll swap out the Knight Errant for 2 Armigers Helverin. I'll take out 5 Skitarii Vanguard and the arc rifles and taser goad, as well as replace the Tech-priest Dominus's phosphor serpenta with a macrostubber, so that I can squeeze in an Onager Dunecrawler with neutron laser and 2 Cognis heavy stubbers. But...I doubt that will happen. If this happens, it'll definitely be House Vulker for me. In fact, if that happens, I'll just go with House Yato following House Hawkshroud's Household Tradition and go with a Knight Valiant instead. Of course, there is a case to be made for making House Yato House Raven. That will mean taking a Knight Valiant along with 3 Armigers Warglaive with meltaguns to maximize the use of Relentless Advance. I'll have enough points for an arc pistol and arc maul (instead of taser goad). It'll be even fluffier to give my Skitarii the Metalica forge world dogma to accompany House Raven-styled House Yato into battle! Unfortunately, I'm not exactly thrilled with using Metalica. And besides, if I'm going Knight Valiant and Armigers Warglaive, then I might as well go with House Griffith anyway, escorted by my Kamikaze Stormtroopers who seem to be better infantry than my Skitarii.

Thing is, House Yato is an Imperium-aligned Knight House, not a Mechanicus-aligned one, so I'm not exactly enthusiastic about making them Mechanicus aligned just so I can play with Cawl's Wrath, min-max my list to get re-rolls of ones and...stuff. But given how the forge world of Draconis IV is practically next door to Draconis III, I can see why it's possible to tailor my fluff accordingly. I'm still not convinced that it is necessary, though.

I guess, when it comes down to it, everything depends on whether the Armigers get FAQed or not. If they don't, then tough luck...Knight Castellan, Knight Crusader and Knight Errant with a Skitarii Battalion. Otherwise...Knight Valiant and a couple of Armigers Helverin that are escorted by my Kamikaze Stormtroopers.

Speaking of which, if I'm gonna get Skitarii anyway, what happens if I try to do some crazy list that allows me to farm as many Command Points as possible? The Astra Militarum Brigade Detachment already nets me a whooping 12 Command Points, and add 5 from a Skitarii Battalion, and 3 for having a Battle-forged army, that would lead to 20 Command Points. Yeah, you heard that right. 20 Command Points. Now how did I get to that list?

Draconian Armored Defenders

Brigade Detachment (12 Command Points)

HQ

3 Tempestors Prime with command rods (45x3 = 135) - 1 of them is the Warlord with Grand Strategist Warlord Trait and the Kurov's Aquila Heirloom.

Elites

2 4-men Militarum Tempestus Command Squads with 4 plasma guns each (88x2=176)

Commissar with bolt pistol 16

Troops

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 2 plasma guns 74

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 2 plasma guns 74

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with hot-shot volley guns 62

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with hot-shot volley guns 62

10 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 4 plasma guns 148

10 Militarum Tempestus Scions 100

Fast Attack

Armored Sentinel with plasma cannon 55

2 Armored Sentinel, each with lascannon (60x2=120)

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Annihilator with lascannon and plasma cannons 212

2 Leman Russ Executioner tanks, each with lascannon and plasma cannons (192x2=384)

Total: 1,618

Draconian Skitarii Maniple

Battalion Detachment (5 Command Points)

HQ

Tech-priest Dominus with volkite blaster and phosphor serpenta 127

Tech-priest Enginseer 47

Troops

5 Skitarii Vanguard with 2 plasma calivers, phosphor blast pistol and taser goad 75

5 Skitarii Vanguard with 2 arc rifles 48

5 Skitarii Rangers with 2 transuranic arquebuses 85

Total: 382

Grand Total: 2,000, 20 Command Points

Yes, the list isn't optimal, but the amount of Command Points that I get with this list is just insane. I'll be spamming...I dunno, lots and lots of Stratagems with this list. Not to mention, I get to fix my tanks with the Tech-priest Enginseer too! This is just too funny! At least that's what I think, but okay. I can imagine the look on my opponent's face when I tell him I have 20 Command Points. And I'm going to get more every time he uses a Stratagem..not to mention I have a 1/3 chance of refunding mine whenever I use them for my own Stratagems! Not only that, it's pretty fluffy in that...well, you often hear and read about Imperial Guardsmen fighting alongside Mechanicus Skitarii, right? And how Tech-priests Enginseers often follow their beloved Leman Russ tanks into battle! Well, here it is!

Draconian Armored Defenders

Brigade Detachment (12 Command Points)

HQ

3 Tempestors Prime with command rods (45x3 = 135) - 1 of them is the Warlord with Grand Strategist Warlord Trait and the Kurov's Aquila Heirloom.

Elites

2 4-men Militarum Tempestus Command Squads with 4 plasma guns each (88x2=176)

Commissar with bolt pistol 16

Troops

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 2 plasma guns 74

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 2 plasma guns 74

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 2 plasma guns 74

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with 2 plasma guns 74

5 Militarum Tempestus Scions with hot-shot volley guns 62

10 Militarum Tempestus Scions 100

Fast Attack

Armored Sentinel with plasma cannon 55

2 Armored Sentinel, each with lascannon (60x2=120)

Heavy Support

3 Leman Russ Executioner tanks, each with lascannon and plasma cannons (192x3=576)

Dedicated Transport

Taurox Prime with Taurox gatling cannon and 2 hot-shot volley guns 114

Total: 1,650

Draconian Skitarii Maniple

Battalion Detachment (5 Command Points)

HQ

Tech-priest Dominus with volkite blaster and phosphor serpenta 127

Tech-priest Enginseer 47

Troops

5 Skitarii Vanguard with 2 plasma calivers, phosphor blast pistol and taser goad 75

5 Skitarii Vanguard with 2 arc rifles, arc pistol and arc maul 56

5 Skitarii Vanguard with taser goad 44

Total: 349

Grand Total: 1,999, 20 Command Points

I actually prefer this list for some reason, especially with the Taurox Prime and 3 Leman Russ Executioner tanks. It does annoy me a little that I have a lot less anti-tank weapons or lascannons, but the amount of plasma in this list is downright deadly. Not to mention, Metalica-Draconian Skitarii will be great for moving up the field. Anyway, we'll see...but this list is flexible and can double as anti-horde. I hope. Only regret is that I can't fit a Shadowsword in there. Oh well. Well, actually, if I remove the Skitarii maniple and Taurox Prime, as well as trade a plasma Kamikaze Trooper squad for a Hot-shot volley one, I might just be able to barely afford a Shadowsword (with 4 points left over to give my Commissar a plasma pistol). It does suck that he won't get the Cadian regimental doctrine because he's in a super-heavy auxiliary, though. Sigh... Well, better than nothing! I guess I'll keep him moving around and Crush Them! under his Adamantium Tracks!