Astra Militarum/Imperial Guard "Wiki"

Ave Omnissiah!

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My blog is primarily my own personal fluff in the Warhammer 40,000 universe regarding the Draconis system such as the Knight House Yato in Draconis III, the Imperial Guard...I mean, Astra Militarum regiment trained there, the Draconian Armored Defenders, and the Forge World of Draconis IV with its Adeptus Mechanicus priesthood, Cybernetica cohorts and Skitarii legions, and the Titan Legion, Legio Draconis, known as the Dark Dragons.

Oh, and I'll throw in the Thousand Sons from time to time because they're my favorite Space Marine Legion. I refuse to believe that they are Traitors! They're just...ahem...secretly loyal to the Imperium!

Featured Post

Beginner's Guide to playing Thousand Sons

All right, so you've read all the awesome lore on the Thousand Sons, beginning with A Thousand Sons  by Graham McNeill  and culminatin...

Saturday, January 27, 2018

Tzaangors and Thousand Sons

Okay, this is getting ridiculous. I'm looking at Dakka Dakka and there are a lot of people who are making ridiculous claims about the new Thousand Sons codex, so I thought I'll just put some thoughts out there and get them to calm down. I doubt they will, though. People will only listen to what they want to hear.

This Thousand Sons codex rumors thread and this Thousand Sons are dead thread are getting out of hand. I do understand if people are upset if they're forced to take Tzaangors, but I don't think that's the case at all.

I mean, people like Nintura are making fallacious claims such as "So you'd rather show up, take an hour to setup a game and deploy, knowing you're playing an underpowered army and likely lose? And that sounds fun? I'm not saying every game needs to be waac, but if you can't really win, why play at all?" or "Being competitive or just losing horrible is in fact a form of being forced... "Hey you can play this bad army and you'll lose 80% of your games, but hey we aren't forcing you to play! Instead, here, we'll make winning much more easier but it requires you to buy a whole new army. But again, that's only IF you want to win"" Now this is getting ridiculous. Have you played a game with them yet? Obviously not. And if you lose most of the time, perhaps the problem isn't with your list but the way you play them or your strategy/deployment. Just because Tzaangors have synergy with the new units like Tzaangor Shaman or Tzaangor Enlightened doesn't mean your Rubric Marines are useless. Where's the link? How do Tzaangors being good suddenly lead to your Rubric Marines and Scarab Occult Terminators suddenly being useless and causing you to lose most of your games? If anything, you have new psychic powers and Stratagems that buffs them - they're a lot stronger than they were in the Index. As I said, if you're losing 80% of your games (and where did he get those statistics from?), then the problem is with you, not the Marines or even the Tzaangors.

Honestly, right now it sounds like he's saying, "Tzaangors are good. Therefore, Rubric Marines are bad." No, did you arrive to that conclusion? What do Tzaangors being good have anything to do with Rubric Marines being bad or you losing most of your games?

Nintura also makes another hyperbolic argument. "Because, and again, it is not Thousand Sons supported by Gors. It's Gors supported by Thousand Sons. And really, you dont even need them."

That's like saying my tank army is not Leman Russ tanks supported by infantry, but infantry supported by Leman Russ tanks, and that I don't even need my tanks. What BS. Just because hordes are the meta now doesn't mean you must play only infantry squads and heavy weapon squads. I like tanks, I play them and I win regularly. And of course Tzaangors outnumber Rubric Marines. They're a horde unit. Why are you complaining about a horde unit outnumbering your elite unit? That makes no sense. That's like me complaining that I have more infantry than tanks. Well, duh. Infantry are meant to outnumber vehicles. In the same vein, your chaff/fodder Tzaangors are supposed to outnumber your Rubric Marines. That's their job.

This doesn't mean Tzaangors become the focus of your army, or that it's a Tzaangor army supported by unnecessary Rubric Marines. If they're there to bubblewrap your Rubric Marines to do the real job (capture objectives while your Tzaangors distract the enemy and die) then yeah, Tzaangors are the support unit. Complaining that they outnumber Rubric Marines when that's their job as chaff/fodder is just absurd.

And then you have Wulfey complaining, "Why ever take rubrics? They are junk. 30x tzaangor bombs hits on 2+ from an aura, and get +1 to wound from the strategem. And they charge on an 8" off a deepstrike. Can you can warptime them. And you can deepstrike them from either strategems or relics. What a joke. hitting an 8" charge on 2d6 rerolling 1 dice from a CP is like 70-80%. And the other tzaangor bomb can warptime. And if you have CP, they fight twice for 2CP."

Again, another ridiculous statement. Rubric Marines have completely different roles from Tzaangors. Here, you want a melee unit. Of course Tzaangors are better in melee. But he seems to have forgotten that 30-men Tzaangors are susceptible to morale. Not only that, with their terrible armor save (6+) and mediocre invulnerable save (5++), they die very easily. Rubric Marines have a 3+ armor save, going up to 2+ against 1-damage weapons, and their invulnerable saves go up to 4++ against 1 damage weapons (hot-shot lasguns, plasma rifles, etc.) They are much more durable. Not only that, they are much better at shooting. Your Tzaangors have autopistols at best, which are Strength 3 AP0. Why bother with them? Rubric Marines are better at range with their Strength 4 AP -2 inferno bolters, more durable, and even have an Aspiring Sorcerer who can cast Tzeentch's Glamor to make them even harder to kill. And seriously, can Tzaangors take warpflamers? No. Rubric Marines can take 4-9 warpflamers, Deep Strike 9" away, have an Exalted Sorcerer or use Chaos Familiar to swap the power for Warp Time, and then incinerate hordes with 4D6 or 9D6 Strength 4 AP -2 attacks. And that's just the shooting phase.

No, Rubric Marines have their uses and excel in different roles when compared to Tzaangors. Dismissing them and claiming that Tzaangors are superior in every way is just delusional. Furthermore, when we talk about synergy - who's going to benefit from the Exalted Sorcerer's "re-roll to hit rolls of ones" in the shooting phase? The Rubric Marines with their inferno bolters, of course. Not the Tzaangors with their pathetic autopistols. And if we're talking about the Legion Trait, Brotherhood of Sorcerers, who benefits from that? Not the Tzaangors who have no psychic ability to speak of, but the Aspiring Sorcerer (and the Scarab Occult Sorcerer) in your Rubric Marines (and Scarab Occult Terminators). Even the Legion Trait is designed for your Marines, not your mutant hordes. The only one who benefits from the Legion Trait is the Tzaangor Shaman, but hey, are you going to build your army around a Tzaangor Shaman with lots of Tzaangors? That would be a waste of your Legion Trait.

Then you have Thousand-Son-Sorcerer, whose constant whining has totally destroyed his credibility. "Why do we have no way to recover CP when we are one of the lowest model count armies? Lower then DG in model count and they have a CP recoup method. " Obviously he missed the Helm of Third Eye, which allows you to recover Command Points whenever your opponent uses a Stratagem. At this point, he sounds like he's grasping at straws and whining for the sake of whining.

Oh, and his statement "This is the problem, as other armies get their codices we will fall further and further behind, until we are in the bottom 5 or 6 armies in the game if that. That is IF we run Rubrics, if we run Tzaangors we will probably be one of the best armies in the game." And he knows our ranking how? Has he played a game with Rubric Marines with the new codex? Honestly, the whining is getting out of hand. Yes, Tzaangors are good. I get it. They have good synergy with the new units. I also get that. But how does "good" Tzaangors suddenly equate to Rubric Marines being bad/not competitive?

And his BS "Anything Rubrics do, Tzaangors do better.". I just explained why. And this statement. "All kinds, but that usually involves getting some sort of spread on units with a codex release. Not 4 new units either a gor or something to buff gors." We only have 2 new units that are Tzaangors - the Shaman and the Enlightened. Not 4. Again, he's undermining his credibility with all these absurd claims and falsehoods. And we have stuff to buff Rubric Marines too, so why the hell is he complaining? Surely any blind guy can see that the re-roll hit rolls of ones will benefit the Rubric Marines more in the shooting phase than the Tzaangors. Holy...this guy is just delusional.

Again, if you think Rubric Marines are overcosted, then you're playing them wrong. There are plenty of new ways to play them. My 9-men warpflamer squad that uses the webway and Warptime is one of them. Don't want to use Tzaangors? Buff your Maulerfiend with a Mutalix Vortext (I'm pretty sure nobody would complain if it's Daemon Engines that get the spotlight in a Thousand Sons codex, ironically - but if it's Tzaangors, then all hell breaks loose). Need anti-vehicle? Helbrutes and Predators. Don't give me the "but we need Rubric Havocs!" If you have Rubric Havocs then there's no point having lascannon Predators or Helbrutes. And honestly, with so many ways to dish mortal wounds, these mortal wounds hurt high-wound, elite units more than fodder units - which melt away to the Rubric Marines' inferno bolters and warpflamers.

Speaking of which, I would rather take Rubric Marines and warpflamers/inferno bolters against horde armies than fragile Tzaangors. Both units have their niche, and complaining that Tzaangors render Rubric Marines obsolete and useless is just the height of stupidity. Use your imagination. Tzaangors die easily without Rubric Marine support. They're glass cannons. Sure, the new Stratagems, the Tzaangor Shaman aura and Mutalix Vortex will give them extra firepower and stronger attacks (in melee), but they lack the ranged shooting firepower that Rubric Marines have. They also lack the durability that Rubric Marines have to camp on objectives and shrug off high AP firepower or hordes' 1-damage firepower. They also aren't as versatile because they can't cast psychic spells, whereas the Aspiring Sorcerer can. And a 24" Smite with the Brotherhood of Sorcerers Legion Trait at that. Can Tzaangors do that? No.

Now, if you think your Rubric Marine list is weak, stop whining and actually sit down and think of ways you can use them. The problem with Thousand-Son-Sorcerer, Nintura and the others is that they are too obsessed with Tzaangors and bashing them. Stop talking about Tzaangors. If you don't want Tzaangors in your army, then stop talking about them or thinking about them. Focus on how you want to play Thouand Sons with Rubric Marines. Quit whining about how you will lose with 60 Rubric Marines and instead focus on how you can win with them. 60 Rubric Marines means 6 different Change spells, and you can Deep Strike a bunch of them either with the Stratagem or the relic. And if you do, give them warpflamers for horde control. Don't give me the "warpflamers suck or are overcosted" BS. Use them. Play with them. Experiment with your list, Stratagems, deployment and tactics. If you lose, find out why you lose and stop blaming it on the Tzaaangors. Tzaangors aren't the reason you lost, and neither is it the Rubric Marines being bad (because quite frankly, they are good). You ever see a Space Marine list that runs only tactical squads? I don't. They have Predator support, tank support, Dreadnought support, etc. You don't want to use Tzaangors? Well, you have Predators, Vindicators, even Land Raiders. You have Daemon Engines - look at the Defiler, Forgefiend and Maulerfiend! Use those! Don't whine about Rubric Marines being terrible and Tzaangors being must-take. They are not. You have options other than Tzaangors - your Helbrutes, tanks and Daemon Engines. You can take Tzeentch allies if you like Horrors. You can field a Supreme Command Detachment of 3-5 Exalted Sorcerers or Sorcerers and have them fly all over the place while giving your Rubric Marines re-rolls of ones for their inferno bolters, and warp time warpflamer Rubric Marines into flamer range. You can Glamor of Tzeentch them, then tarpit an annoying enemy. There's so much stuff you can think about Rubric Marines and how to use them (and Scarab Occult Terminators too). If you're wasting time complaining about Tzaangors, why not use that time and energy to think about how to better use your Rubric Marines and Scarab Occult Terminators instead of writing them off right from the start?!

Honestly, just think about it. All right?

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