Let's start with my list. It was a 2,000-point game because my opponent wanted matched play instead of narrative where I suggested we throw together quick lists using the power ratings. Nope, he wanted points, and I thought he had a point, so we ended up having matched play.
|Imperial Knight household, supported by an Adeptus Mechanicus Battalion led by Tech-priests Dominus and manned by Skitarii soldiers.|
I took one Super-heavy Detachment for the 3 Command Points benefit, and then a Battalion Detachment for another 3 Command Points, for a total of 9. Because I like abusing the system. Okay, maybe not, but it seemed like the only viable list for me to play. Anyway, please take a look through it and let me know if there's anything, anything wrong at all with my list. Is it legal? Did I miscalculate? Did I miss out on some hidden costs somewhere? Am I mistaken and Knights are actually more expensive than what I read here? Or is it my Adeptus Mechanicus Battalion Detachment that is illegal?
Super-heavy Detachment (Imperial Knights)
Knight Paladin 320 + 100 (rapid-fire battle cannon) + 2x4 (heavy stubbers) + 30 (Reaper chainsword) = 458
Knight Errant 320 + 76 (thermal cannon) + 4 (heavy stubber) + 30 (Reaper chainsword) = 430
Knight Warden 320 + 95 (Avenger gatling cannon) + 4 (heavy stubber) + 30 (Reaper chainsword) + 17 (heavy flamer) = 466
Battalion Detachment (Adeptus Mechanicus)
Tech-priest Dominus 125 + 8 (volkite blaster) + 2 (stubcarbine) = 135
Tech-priest Dominus 125 + 14 (eradicator ray) + 2 (stubcarbine) = 141
Skitarii Vanguard 10x10 = 100
Skitarii Rangers 5x10 = 50
Kataphron Destroyers 3x[35 + 27 (plasma culverin) + 11 (cognis flamer)] = 3x73 = 219
Absolute total: 1,999
Is the total cost of my list correct? I didn't make any mistake, right? Just to confirm, I did not purchase any carapace weapons for my Imperial Knights because I didn't have enough points. So I did not use the Stormspear rocket pod or twin Icarus autocannons at all. Even if you see the Stormspear rocket pod in the photos, treat it as broken. I never fired a single Stormspear rocket at all, and I treated the Knight as not having one. Assuming I had that correct, is everything else all right to you? Does the list looks all right to you? Are there any mistakes?
As a point of comparison, here is my opponent's list. I think he used a single Battalion Detachment and only had 6 Command Points total compared to my 9.
Battalion Detachment (Blood Angels)
Yeah, he used a Blood Angels list. Anyway, back to Blood Angels, here is what he had.
2 Baal Predators 107x2 + 70 (assault cannon) + 40 (heavy bolters) = 324
Death Company with jumppacks 5x20+20 = 120
Death Company Dreadnaught 128+50+17 (meltagun, I think) = 195
2 Drop pods 103x2 + 2x2 (storm bolters, I believe) = 210
2 tactical squads of Space Marines 130x2 + 17 (meltagun) x2 + 25 (missile launchers) x2 = 344
Sanguinary Priest with jumppack 86 + power sword + 4 = 90 (?)
9 Sanguinary Guard 22x9 + 9x9 + 4x16 + 4x13 + 20 = 198 + 81 + 64 + 52 + 20 = 415
Sanguinary Ancient thingy with a banner - he never wrote this guy down but yet used him in the game. Oh well. I assume it's 107 points.
Total: 1,868 without the Sanguinary Ancient, 1,975 points if I assume it's 107 because that's what my opponent told me. He only had 1,975 points.
Does his list look all right to you guys, or is there something missing? Like, did he mistakenly add up his costs and his units are actually cheaper than he thought they are? Stuff like that.
We rolled off, got Maelstrom, I rolled a 6 and got Cleanse and Conquer or Cleanse or something. We set up the terrain, we took turns to deploy our units, but since I was the first one to finish deploying, I get to choose whether I want to start first. I said yes, and he tried to seize the initiative but failed.
|Time to cleanse and conquer!|
We had some weird deployment where it angled up to some spike at the center of the table. Heh. Basically I rolled a 5 for the deployment zone, and we both took the opposite lengths of the table but it was a zone that was widest at the center and narrowest at the sides.
Anyway, I put all the odd numbered objectives at my end and the center, and he put the even numbered objectives on his end and the center. I had my Skitarii Rangers camp over Objective 3 and my Skitarii Vanguard and the Tech-priest Dominus (my Warlord?) camp on Objective 1, all three units including the Warlord in cover. My Knight Paladin stood watch over Objective 1. My Knight Errant and Knight Warden were deployed further to the right. And then my remaining Tech-priest Dominus with the volkite blaster and his Kataphron Destroyer-pattern heavy battle servitors took cover near objective 3.
My opponent placed one tactical combat squad with the missile launcher at one corner of the table, hiding inside cover. He placed a second combat squad with the missile launcher in some ruins to capture objective 2, I think. He kept the remaining 5-men combat squads with meltaguns in reserve, by placing them inside drop pods. The Dreadnaught was hunkering in front of the ruin where the second combat squad was, and the Sanguinary Priest was right next to him. The two Baal Predators were located all the way on the other end of his deployment zone, parked behind cover.
I drew three tactical objectives, which is to hold objective 1 for 2 turns, hold objective 6 for 2 turns, and behind enemy lines. I know I couldn't get the third one, and objective 1 was already under my control, so yay. I moved my Knight Errant up to claim Objective 6, and my Knight Warden to get Objective 5 even though I didn't really need it. But hey, might as well, right?
|Blood Angels getting bloody|
My Knight Paladin was my true MVP, though. His heavy stubbers did nothing to the Space Marine combat squad in the corner, but his rapid-fire battle cannon squashed them into nothingness. First Blood for me.
My opponent then dropped his drop pods right in front of my Knight Warden, and another right in front of my Kataphron Destroyers. He Deep Strike his Sanguinary Guard, Sanguinor and Sanguinary Ancient 9" away from my Skitarii Vanguard and Tech-priest Dominus. He also moved his Dreadnaught forward toward my Knight Warden and jump-packed his Sanguinary Priest somewhere. Oh, and then he healed his Dreadnaught back to full health with the Sanguinary Priest's ability. Cool.
But he forgot to Deep Strike his Death Company. Whoops.
He then shot whatever he could. His 2 Baal Predators fired their assault cannons and heavy bolters at my Knight Errant, who made some saves, but eventually took about 2 or 3 wounds. Phew. Not very effective shooting, I must say. His drop pods fired their storm bolters and took about about 3 Skitarii Rangers, I think. His Sanguinary Guard fired their bolters and killed 3 Skitarii Vanguard. His tactical squads fired their meltaguns, and I think I made my saves for my Knight Paladin while my Knight Warden suffered quite a bit of damage both from the meltagun, combi-melta and the multi-melta from the Dreadnaught. Then he charged.
Needless to say, my Skitarii Vanguard did nothing in overwatch, but only the Sanguinary Guard made it in close combat. The Sanguinor and the Sanguinary Ancient failed their charges, but it mattered not. The Dreadnaught failed its charge, then my opponent used a Command Point to re-roll his charge and succeeded the second time. After that, the Dreadnaught pummeled my poor Imperial Knight with his fists and dropped him to about 9 wounds. I think.
Ouch. That hurts. That really hurts.
I fought back and my Knight Warden managed to deal a measly 6 wounds to the Dreadnaught with his Reaper chainsword, thanks to his WS going down to 4+ after taking more than 12 wounds. Sigh. As for the Sanguinary Guard, needless to say, they utterly destroyed my Skitarii Vanguard in close combat, and my entire Skitarii squad was wiped out. My Tech-priest Dominus, who was dragged into the fight since he was 1" away, did a single wound, but the Sanguinary Guard, having Terminator armor, made their armor saves and survived.
My opponent had drawn claim objective 3 and objective 4, I think, and he earned a point for claiming objective 4. Score was 1-1.
|The Baal Predators are looking quite predatory.|
I was thinking things were looking bad for me. I moved my Knight Errant further up but still within Objective 6, so that I could claim 2 points for my objectives.
I had my Knight Warden fall back from the Dreadnaught because being a super-heavy walker, he could still fire even if he fell back. Cool. On the other hand, my warlord Tech-priest Dominus had no such ability, but I made him fall back anyway, because reasons. I also moved my Knight Paladin up a little so as to, you know, make sure I pass the charge.
I then used the Canticles of Omnissiah and received Benediction of the Omnissiah so that I can re-roll 1s to hit. Why? Because plasma, that's why. With that blessing in place, I swiveled my Kataphron Destroyers around and blasted the Sanguinary Guard with their plasma culverins, and I supercharged it. Even with 2 wounds, the Sanguinary Guard were basically annihilated, with only 2 survivors. I killed 7 of those winged bastards with the supercharged plasma shots. Yeah, supercharging was worth it if you can re-roll those 1s. Hell, yeah!
My 3 surviving Skitarii Rangers fired on the tactical squad closest to them and did absolutely nothing with their galvanic rifles. Oh well. My Tech-priest Dominus also fired on the tactical squad, but with his terrible AP, he did f all. Well, his job is something else, so who cares about that.
My Knight Errant then fired on the wounded Baal Predator, but fluffed his shots again and only did another 3 wounds. With 11 wounds, the Baal Predator still had 5 left after taking 2 thermal cannon hits. And the other Baal Predator was still at full health. Scary.
My Knight Warden unleashed his heavy flamer on the Death Company Dreadnaught because that was the only enemy unit within 8" range of the heavy flamer...and what do you know, he killed the damned walker with a heavy flamer. Did 2 wounds, and the Dreadnaught failed his armor saves and boom! It...was incinerated. Now that's something you'll never see in 7th Edition. I mean, with 13 front armor and 12 side armor, there's no way a Strength 5 heavy flamer would wound a Dreadnaught. But now a heavy flamer wounds it on a 5+! Wow!
The heavy stubbers of the Knight Errant and Knight Warden did absolutely f all against the tactical squad in front of the latter. So I fired my Avenger gatling cannon and probably only killed 1 or 2 of them. I think 2.
My Knight Paladin, being the MVP that he is, glomped about 2 dudes with his battle cannon. Let's not mention the heavy stubber, because they suck against Space Marines having 2+ armor save in cover. So I charged them and stomped the surviving 3 to death. Oh, I elected not to charge my poor Knight Warden because he had only about 9 wounds left and I didn't want him to lose any more to overwatch. Ugh.
|My Knight Paladin, the MVP of my game.|
Then the second Baal Predator, the remaining melta guy and whoever, including the Sanguinary Priest who jumppacked forward with his thunder hammer, all fired upon the wounded Knight Warden and slowly plinked him down to just 4 wounds. Ouch. My opponent must be so frustrated, not being able to kill the guy despite throwing so many shots at him. He even fired the missile from the missile launcher guy and failed to wound. I think he actually fluffed his melta shot, so he spent a second Command Point to re-roll to wound, and finally did it to hack my poor Knight down to the aforementioned 4 wounds (otherwise my Knight would have 7 or 8).
The 2 remaining Sanguinary Guard, upon passing their morale test, had been jumppacking toward my Kataphron Destroyers and remaining Tech-priest Dominus while the Sanguinor was advancing toward my Warlord Tech-priest Dominus. The Ancient remained in limbo, probably not knowing what to do, but while he fired ineffectively against my Knight Paladin, he didn't charge the guy. The Sanguinary Guard put 1 wound on my Kataphron Destroyers, being better shooters than the drop pods.
Then everyone charged. The Sanguinary Guard charged my Kataphron Destroyers and tanked the cognis flamers and snapshooting plasma culverins with their freaking 2+ armor save, and made it into combat. On the other hand, the last tactical squad that charged, while they failed to make their charge, they lost nobody because they made all their armor saves, and my Knight Warden barely hit any of them with overwatch, the heavy flamer actually rolling a 1 for hits. Oh well. Ironically enough, thanks to a hilarious combination of bad luck and...uh, well, an ill-advised charge, my Knight Warden actually wiped out the Death Company squad with a combination of heavy flamer shots and Avenger gatling cannon shots. I told you the heavy flamer was MVW. No, it might actually be the Avenger gatling cannon. Or both. The Sanguinary Priest also charged, and he was incinerated to death or peforated by the Avenger gatling cannon. Whatever the case, he died to overwatch. The Sanguinor charged my Tech-priest Dominus gain, who had fallen back during my turn, and I actually put a single wound on him with overwatch. Dude has 5 wounds, so 4 left though. Not much difference.
The Sanguinor mopped the floor with my Tech-priest Dominus and slew him in close combat, thus earning my opponent Slay the Warlord. The Sanguinary Guard went to town on my poor Kataphron Destroyers. They inflicted 6 wounds, I think, and killed 2 of my Kataphron Destroyers. The last one barely survived with about 2 wounds left. Sucking at combat, he took a swing and missed spectacularly. Well, I expected that. And then my Tech-priest Dominus, having been dragged into combat, swung with his Omnissiah's axe and beheaded one of the Sanguinary Guard. Oh, wow. Now I didn't expect that. So I elected to keep him in combat to finish the guy off during my turn. On the other hand, both the 2 surviving Skitarii Rangers and the lone remaining Kataphron Destroyer passed their morale tests.
|My Knights prove to be quite the Knightmare for my opponent.|
It was a little too one-sided to the point that my opponent was literally in tears by the end of the game. Okay, maybe not that bad. But I could see that he was pissed off. And I don't blame him. To be frank, I probably would be furious if I were in his shoes. It was just a one-sided massacre. My Imperial Knights were too strong. My opponent was so enraged he demanded that I re-check my list and he was adamant that I had miscalculated somehow, that the Imperial Knights might actually be more expensive than I thought they were. He was certain I made a mistake with the Imperial Knights' costs, and I had to add them up in front of him to prove that I had been mathematically correct. He then accused me of using an illegal detachment, that there was no such detachment for Imperial Knights, and again I showed him the Super-heavy Detachment that you can see above, that I was using the Detachment as labeled in the new rulebook.
So yeah...perhaps something is very wrong here. Do you know? Even though my opponent spent 2 out of his 6 Command Points, I still had 9 Command Points left, and I didn't even use a single one. Not a single one. Yup, you got it. I still had 9 Command Points left, along with 3 surviving Imperial Knights that are very much alive (well, the Knight Warden was 1/6 alive).
All I can say is...Throne on Terra. This is the second time I played such a one-sided game. I just came out of a match where I essentially tabled a Genestealer Cultist list with just 2 Imperial Knights, and now I bloodied the Blood Angels in a 2,000-point game with 3 Imperial Knights and an additional Adeptus Mechanicus Battalion. I'm beginning to feel very bad for my opponents. Both of them. I'm actually very apologetic to the second one today, he sounded extremely frustrated and pissed off at how lopsided the game was. True, he wiped out an entire squad of Skitarii Vanguard and slew my Warlord, but that's about it. I took out more than half his army - 3 combat squads wiped (with 1 still hanging on with a single guy with a missile launcher, and the sole surviving one at half-strength), the Sanguinary Priest, the Death Company, the Death Comany Dreadnaught, and 8 out of 9 Sanguinary Guard all dead. In just 2 turns. If it had continued onto the 3rd turn. that last combat squad would most likely be erased, and I would be able to kill at least one Baal Predator and leave another severely damaged. And I probably would have stomped his Sanguinor to death with my Knight Paladin, provided he survived the rapid-fire cannon. By the end of my 3rd turn, he would only have 1 severely damaged Predator (if it was lucky enough to survive a 3rd thermal cannon shot), 2 drop pods and 1 Ancient left. I would still have 3 Imperial Knights - 1 almost at full health, the other at half health, and the 3rd barely hanging on with 1/6 health, a 2nd Tech-priest Dominus and probably that Kataphron Destroyer, and those 2 Skitarii Rangers hanging onto objective 3. Oh, and thanks to me charging that Baal Predator, I'll have scored Behind Enemy Lines for another point. Praise the Omnissiah.
Don't forget, not only did I not give my Imperial Knights carapace weapons, I have yet to spend even a single Command Point. How the heck is he supposed to turn the game around? I understand why he decided to call it quits by the end of the second turn. Not only was more than half his army utterly destroyed...probably about 75% if we count it by model count, 31 out of 42, while my Imperial Knights are still towering over the survivors, he didn't have enough forces left to claim objectives. Yeah, he had quite the terrible luck.
Are Imperial Knights supposed to be this strong? Doesn't this two matches show that something is amiss? Imbalanced, even? Or did I make a mistake somewhere with my list? Please, I'm all ears here. I need my advice, or even if you think it's my opponent, then let me know so that I can pass the message on to him. Should he have taken Predators with 4 lascannons instead of assault cannons and heavy bolters? What should he have done differently? Or is my list completely illegal? Thanks in advance, and I look forward to hearing from any of you.
I really don't want to see any of my other opponents snap like this future, and while it is fun stomping opponents, it is not fun watching them, uh, suffer. I'm of the motion that fun is most fun only when everyone is having fun. Me having fun alone while my opponent is seething in frustration and fury does not constitute a good gaming environment, and to be honest, it makes me feel bad. I'm not gaming to feel guilty, I play to have fun, and I want my opponents to have as much fun as I do. This is just too...ugh. I can understand my opponent breaking down into tears at the end (nah, men don't cry). I probably would have snapped if this happened to me. Not only that, I am worried that I will not be able to find any opponents in future.
Anyway, no point dwelling on this. We need solutions, either by clearing up that my list is indeed illegal and I've inadvertently cheated somehow by paying less points for my Imperial Knights than is stipulated in the new index, or telling my opponent that he had brought the wrong army to the table.